Player Meeting - Feb 12th
Player Meeting
Summary: Player & Staff Meeting
Date: Feb 12th 2009, 7-10:30pm EST
Related Logs: Related Logs (Say None if there aren't any; don't leave blank)

TP Room 1 Kobol - The Crossroads
91 ACH 23817 Souls


This circular chamber is large, immensly so. The roof itself curves up into a dome-like structure. Set at equal distances from each other along the outer wall are the wall-scrolls, the flags of the twleve different Colonies. In the very centre of the room, is a fountain of crystal-clear water, rimmed by marble stone.

A table much shaped like a ring is set around the fountain, surrounded by a multitude of chairs. Additional chairs too surround the table set out in a ring-like orietation, the next row bigger than the previous one, spreading outwards. There are no tiers, and all are equal in this room. Akin to the table of the mythical Knights of the Round.

There's also a long counter of coffee machines and snacks, if anyone gets hungry…

This room is currently UNLOCKED.

See +lhelp for local help files.


Genesis:
Ok, for me on this merry go round, I've been blamed alot here for things that are not something I am doing. I've explained out a few on the Wiki. But to get it out of the way again.
1.) I did not begin the Mafia or Stripper thing, nor do I have a PC that is in either one. There really is no 'Mafia' here, perse. All PrP's should be going through staff, but as we know, they don't always do that. Reading the Isabeau shadow figures was the first time I had seen it as well.

2. ) I have nothing to do with how each dept head runs their Departments. They provide the RP and whatever else. Promotions, Commendations, etc. I've been told more than a few times, I should not have 'let some people come in with this or that'. So, I've left it to them to make the rules. Maybe I shouldn't have.

3.) CO, XO and CO. Reed's promotion to Colonel was all an IC idea by Salin. It had nothing to do with Staff or staff allowing or disapproving. Salin's promotion was Regas, nothing OOC about it. They have a contention with each other and why he did it? Who the hell knows. I just play the freak, I don't think about it. It's RP. It happens. Can I kick them out? Sure. It seems no one wants them there anyway.

Ok, first question up.

Genesis says, "Zeph, first one on the list, please."

Genesis says, "Ok, who has a question, gimme a ? I'll call it then."

Zaharis says, "Can I just make a quick statement?"

Genesis says, "Go ahead, Z."

Rhea suspects I will have a Me-Too-like statement to make after Zah's, if I could, as I suspect we are rather on the same page. And I have original thoughts of my own I wouldn't mind putting in, after he's done, if that's kosher?

Genesis nods.

Zaharis says, "Okay, because this is a point of irritation for me that just keeps getting reinforced. I don't know why it's become 'The Stripper Thing' when it's a grand total of 3 PCs, all alts, who don't even spend the majority of time in the strip club (which, BTW, existed before the PCs came and gave it some life). It seems like lately a lot of people have been bashing this with a great deal of negativity that's just mindboggling considering it's /three PCs/. So anyway, anyone who's being that negative about RP can froth at me instead of Gen, because it was me that attempted to give a few people something to do. Anyway. I have another comment about something else Gen said, but let Rhea go first."

Genesis says, "Go Rhea."

Chione says, "!"

Micah says, "!"

Rhea says something along that line, then. I suspect the OMIGOD STRIPPERZCRIME!!!111oneoneleven may be a knee-jerk reaction to what the Aquaria MUSH devolved into, Zah. Which is nothing to do with you, and people seem to be getting into the civvie thing, so I think it's all for the good. I /loathed/ the 'Goodfellas in SPAAAAAAAAAAACE' thing on Aquaria and I haven't felt the urge to spaz about it. That's all for now. I may have more later.

You say, "!"

Genesis says, "I have to agree, people went off the deepend for no reason."

Chione you are up"

Chione says, "I believe the "Stripper Thing" that Orion brought up was actually more in relation to military PC's shirking duty roster over on the Destiny in an effort to defend my PC from getting ripped a new one for working her ass off and not goofing off during the Destiny event. But … I haven't completely confirmed that. Now, back to making dinner."

Genesis says, "Micah."

Micah says, "I suppose I don't really have a 'constructive' comment beyond echoing what Zaharis already said. It boggles my mind that people had trouble with the strip club, and the con types, and the lounge singer, and the potential for some really fun RP from all that. It boggles my mind that it could be construed as detracting from the rest of the game, which it wasn't. And the IC reactions of people who were there for that event, also.. yes. Boggle my mind. ;)"

Genesis says, "Zaharis"

Zaharis says, "Actually no, nevermind."

Zaharis says, "I have nothing actually constructive on the issue :)"

Eli says, "?"

Genesis says, "Eli."

Eli says, "Who shirked duty on the Destiny? I thought some things were understood to be offscreen?"

Dynames says, "?"

Genesis says, "I've no idea who might have thought that, it's really a moot point as it was posted people were doing things. Dynames, go ahead."

Dynames says, "This was probably answered in a log somehwere, but, is the 'stripper thing' chione mentioned why the pilots are unilaterally banned from the destiny, or something else."

Eve says, "!"

Genesis says, "In the log with Regas and Rue. She wanted her pilots to just stay home. Now, it could have been due to alot of things. But it was all IC. It was her call and Regas is really just an asshole about things, he didn't say no. Granted, it pulls RP away. Which is something we don't want on an OOC basis. But that can be fixed ICly too.

Eve, go ahead."

Eve laughs. Nevermind, you got it, Gen.

Paris !

Genesis says, "Paris, you're up."

Paris says, "This is obviously just the iceberg for me, I've written a lot on the log and I actually have a whole text document here with other random rambling. Re: the stripper stuff, I wanted just to reiterate that for me, its not even a side-thing, its a main thing. The civilian RP seems like the only place on the game where a player can really… create RP that they want to do, and use their own initiative to make it happen. I recognize its a side thing for most people and I started with a military main PC too. But I guess I feel its pretty vital. And I'm concerned that as it mostly likely dies down, and if the government stuff is handled… poorly, that it will leave the RP prospects for me pretty much gone. I mean the other half of this is… obviously I know this is a military-focused game. So when you take those things together, it suggests to me that the military is stagnant, and that there needs to be more ways for the 'rank and file' military people that most of us will be forced/limited to playing to actually be involved, to influence the story, to be major characters in our own right even if we're not high ranking."

Micah says, "!"

Jocasta says, "!"

Coronis says, "!"

You say, "!"

You say, "Hee"

Micah laughs.

Paris hahahs.

Paris rabble rabble.

Genesis says, "Ok, let me put something in here for this. Before I goto the comments. Rank and File. Rhea has done a fantastic job in her dept with keeping people busy. Engineering is usualy swept under the rug and I have given her things and she has done it on her own. I commend her for it. Same with Zaharis and the Medical. I also requested Shem make the PC he made, to fire up some MP stuff. He's tried, I've tried. I'd say somewhere somethings are not getting across. Because the MP's are going to get more involved. But I can't make them do it. I can only put it out there. —- As for the Air Wing. I let Rue and Addie take the Air Wing and mold it. Whether good or bad, people dont' feel they have anything to do apparently. Yet, when I want to run stuff, I ran into — some problems. I won't go into here, so I left it alone. My mistake. I had stuff for them to do.

Micah, go ahead.

Paris !

Eli says, "!"

Eli says, "?"

Micah says, "I'll try to make this brief, since a bunch of people obviously want to talk. But Paris mentioned one thing that kind of sticks out to me, and is a bit of a sore spot. I think a game like this, which is heavy military (and it is military, to my understanding, with everything else taking backseat) really needs to have a strong element of drive and focus, to keep things from devolving /too/ heavily into relationship drama land. That said, I thrive on relationships, it's what I primarily roleplay for. But without a strong story arc, it kind of loses its.. backbone, I guess? The air wing at least, which might be partly what Paris is referring to, often doesn't have anything keeping it together. Just whatever PCs are willing to be active and try to drive things, but there's only so much those PCs can do. So I at least, have felt my interest waning lately. Sorry, that was horribly rambling. ;)"

Genesis says, "Paris, go ahead"

You say, "I think Jocasta was next, Genny"

Genesis says, "Oops, Jo, sorry."

Paris says, "Lot of people ahead of me :)"

Jocasta says, "Paris is absolutely right. This game is military-oriented. It's pitched that way on purpose and that's what I came here for — to enjoy the military aspects of the Battlestar Galactica mythologies. That isn't to say that I don't feel civilian RP is warranted but I would very much appreciate it if people would keep in mind that civilians are rarely going to be the movers and shakers. However, it seems that they're getting along swimmingly for their own RP purposes and that's great! I also agree with the sentiment that Paris expressed in regards to make it interesting and worthwhile for those relegated to the role of rank and file. If the opportunity for IC promotion is not available to PCs because higher-ranking characters keep coming out of chargen then AT LEAST give us the chance to be recognized for the work we put in by roleplaying our IC job. Many of you know that was incredibly frustrating for me and I'd like to see it rectified. However, Genesis, it's up to you to keep and eye on who you're allowing to come out of character generation and how that impacts the departments they're joining. It's something that needs to be done on a proactive basis. (Ie. when I made Jocasta, I was told I had to come in as an Ensign.) I'm sorry if that negatively impacts new players who want to come in and make a Lieutenant, but it's not fair to me (or the other folks stuck playing low-man on the totem pole)."

Phelan says, "!"

Genesis says, "Yes, at the time it was like playing Ping Pong. We had all these LT's ….aaaand no one was active, so we had Ensigns coming in, who were more active…then we had alll these Ensigns …and half were active…guh. Seriously it was a Merry Go Round. I'll apologize to players for that. But I could not see who was going to be and not going to be playing and making RP.

I think Coronis is next."

Coronis says, "In terms of the government aspect of things, since that was my little idea to get started at some point. We need to remember that it's not going to be perfect, even if we want it to be, OOCly. We're in a poor position, ICly. The fleet numbers a population of just over 22K. There's not alot of experience, government wise, to be found. Alot of the laws, regulations, rules etc.., were lost with no copies. Essentially, things are going to be formed from scratch. It's going to be poorly formed the first time, since I highly doubt things would be perfect on the first go. Or the second. People are going to be frustrated, both Civilian and Military alike. And, it doesn't hinder RP. In fact, it creates plenty of RP opportunities for both the Civilian Population and the Military population, in different avenues. Political. That's what it's about. Creating RP. Who care if it's poorly formed, ICly. The whole fleet is poorly formed. The characters deal with what they are dealt and try to make the best of it.

Secondly, in terms of Salin, since I make no qualms that I play him. I'd like to think that he was considered for the position in terms of what he's done, ICly, already. Yes, folks love to jibe and poke me about Pepper. Yes, it's become a running joke on rumors, public and pages and amongst people and I'm glad that you all get that much of a kick out of it. But rather then people gripping about the fact that he was promoted to the position of XO, OOCly, why havn't people done so ICly? Why havn't people gone to their respective Dept Head's and said 'WTF? He's frakking that Ensign Peters and gets a promotion? That's wrong and I want it investigated?'. I mean, there's plenty of avenues for RP in that regards, for people who want to take it. And in all honesty, whether folks want to believe it or not, Pepper was -most certainly not- the cause of Salin's promotion. Fotilas departure from the position and the lack of available people was the deciding factor.

In essence, things are what we make of it. There's no RP happening? Create some! Come up with an idea! An impromptu plot or scene! We take the good with the bad and we roll with what we have and make due. None of us are perfect and I'll adamantly dispute that fact if anyone thinks they are :)"

Snatch?

Zephyr says, "!? but more !"

Genesis says, "Zaharis is up."

Rhea says, "!"

Zaharis says, "To address Jocasta, I don't think anyone is trying to re-orient the game to civilians. People seem to be getting inordinately paranoid about this just because a couple people enjoy civilian RP. I agree with Coronis on the 'create some' aspect when it comes to RP. That's basically what I did with civilians. It's do-able anywhere. But on a personal topic I do want to bring up something I mentioned on the wiki, that's an issue that kind of plagues me. And that's that as I watch a lot of these events and plotlines, it feels very strongly to me that there's a linear way they're written. They have a pre-planned outcome or two, and almost nothing that an individual character does can affect the outcome. Unless you go really crazy and staff CAN'T brush it aside, like Gars style. It leaves me feeling like okay, I can have some fun in personal RP but when it comes to The Game, I can't do much. That may be a mistaken perception, but I'm being honest about it."

Micah says, "!"

Genesis has never meant it to be like that. "Granted some areas, yeah, I may want to see something done that goes along with pushing it into the distance. I've always tried to allow the PC's to make or break their own environment. Which instance and I'll try to clear it up."

Paris is up.

Paris says, "I want to talk a little about the air wing since its the specific mil branch I was in and because both Jocasta and Micah have echo'ed some of the problems with it. For me its a good example of the problem with the 'Feature' characters on the game - it plays as if they're the stars and we're backup. Aside from the very first scene I had meeting Rue the first day Tychon ICly trasnfered to Genesis, after that it never felt like her RP really acknowledged the importance of the other PCs as members of the story, as driving forces, and not just filler. The one… I dont know, drinking event in the barracks, the 'Numbers' event, etc, in these it seemed ot be her job to grandstand and for us to nod and chime in with the occasional "So say we all" I realize military is about taking and following orders sometimes. But there's a gap in terms of involvement, in terms of bringing the plot to our level. In Numbers, she didn't call out specific PCs who had been hot-dogging or commend ones who didn't (Tychon NEVER once went after an easy raider kill when he could protect a Raptor, for instance - and I know others were better about it as well, so it irked me. It didn't feel like our RP was acknowledged, we were just audience.) Now, I'll split with Jo and Micah about the rank stuff. I… I don't think Rank is a such a big deal, at least as they're envisioning it. Micah probably even means Tychon to some extent in terms of the 'do nothing LTs' (Although I was do nothing mostly because I didnt' want to do a lot of social RP and there weren't alternatives). Military combat pilots… TEND to be lieutenants, from my understanding. Obviously once you're looking at the emergency situation of the fleet and training up new meat, that's different. But still. Look at the first season of BSG. Quite a few LTs. They even somewhat emphasize the point when the Sgt working for the military tribunal or whatever busts in on the pilots, and Crashdown gets in her face - pilots are officers. Anyway. I think its bad policy to enforce people playing 'sucky' characters if they want to play in a given military branch. You can crack down on excessive uberness, but frankly… telling people they can't play the concept they want is going to make them NOT play, not make them adapt to play what you want to play. There isn't a lot of point to forcing skills way down other than to further emphasize the 'coolness' of the Feature PCs. The XP times are also quite laborous once you get past Rank 3, so that's a consideration. Uh… I guesss Coronis added a bit. Again, I don't have any issue with Salin SPECIFICALLY. I dont know him from Adam. But when you say "Go Make RP" I ask you in return, from the military angle, HOW DO I MAKE THAT RP? We weren't allowed to make TPs involving anything more complex than shooting at asteroids. Its pretty frakkin' hard. Also regarding the government, when I say I want it to go well, I don't mean ICly. ICLy it should be a mess. But I mean I am OOCly concerned because of the whole Salin/Isabeau/military link that we'll end up with something that just creates a random additional feature PC and otherwise fails to provide RP for the 'masses'."

Genesis says, "Whew.."

Paris says, "Doing this… stream of thought ends up long, sorry."

Paris says, "Esp as I started answering points along the way :|"

Zephyr thwaps Paris. Pargraphs.

Paris says, "Well I wrote up a file with comments, that I could just post, that has a TON of stuff… but the discussion format we're using doesn't lend to it."

Genesis says, "Ok, hang on and let me answer this to what I can…"

Coronis tosses out a ! as well

Chione says, "!"

Genesis says, "Air Wing. It is a major player in BSG. And we, or actually Faraday began on Pacifica that Marines should be too. Which is a good thing, they are just folks in the background for the most part. Shoot this and go behind the camera. And you are right, Paris, most of the pilots on BSG were LT's. In the beginning I was going to try to make alot of different ranks, but that became a PITA. So we stayed with Ensigns, JG's and LT's. Captains were heads of squads. The Major was the overall person.

But..if everyone has had this kind of tweaking going on, you all shoud have went ICly to the head of your respective areas and probably loaded on them all together. If it became an OOC issue, then of course it goes up to staff."

Genesis says, "Eli is next."

Castillo says, "!"

Paris says, "!"

James says, "A lot. Two words. Please. I beg you all."

Genesis says, "That's minor to the problems we are having here."

Eli takes a deep breath, "I can only speak as somebody who was one of the /first/ MPs cuz people seem to want in on alot of action and as an MP you do alot more brig tossing and finding things to do. Seriously. We're one of the least represented peoples even on the BSG show. HOWEVER, I am /not/ the only MP and I try to give the other MPs things to do on to show the MPs actually do stuff and apparently…nobody is seeing it so we fail, but Eli isn't even the real Sheriff yet. (she apparently doesn't have enough knowledge or experience or something and needs her 'condition' examined…I forget, cuz uh it really isn't that important).

So. I try not to overstep my bounds but Castillo is doing /alot/ on the Hera and well the other MP the female one, Artemis, was supposed to be doing something/looking into something else AND getting more training from Castillo. Meris is Eli's office buddy, and she's really mostly part-time MP. Eli has been doing alot of things behind the scenes, from ducks to overseeing things to investigations and etc. Does he/she always get noticed/commended for her actions? Nah, that's not the point. But Genesis should know from letters and also things as well s/he does more than people realize.

I reeeeeeally don't know how much else I can do within the boundaries of balancing RP and RL. I have fun with how much I do, cuz I was thinking other people have fun too. That said…I thought the MP department was showing to be active with the few people we have. So it is coming across that Shem and people are wasting their time because the 'MPs' don't do anything to get involved, and I don't know if that is what you're saying, if not then…cool. I misunderstood, but…I'm sorry but that really came across as a slap in the face. Eep, sorry for rambling but I'm still reeling."

Eve says, "?"

Eli pants and wheezes and collapses

Genesis says, "No, I don't mean they are wasting their time. That wasn't it at all. Yes, I've got things from Castillo. Also oocly and ICly, I have no idea why Eli hasn't been recognized. I don't feel I should have to bring Regas down to continually poke people to pay attention to their IC crew. I don't want to hound those PC's in charge to do their job on it either. Eli should have put up along time ago.

Phelan, the new guy."

Eli really doesn't care that much about if Eli is recognized or not, I just don't want the MPs to take a rap for something outside of our control. Just my tiny note.

Genesis nods. Noted :)

Phelan says, "Ok, I'm CLEARLY new here and haven't even hit the grid yet, and to cover a previous comment about ranks for new players coming in, Genesis has spoken to me personally since with my age and experience I would be coming in as a Captain. I have not been approved to the grid because of this, and am working with staff to determine what my character should be, and what rank fits for everyone.

Of course I don't know of any problems before, or the entire story on most things, but thought it would be fair to mention that at least in this instance.. they're trying to keep the 'new' people from jumping ahead. I do however agree on the ranks for pilots, they start at a different level.. so it makes sense to have a lot at a particular level. Its not a requirement.. but makes sense ICly as pilots outrank most NCO's, etc."

Genesis says, "Snatch is up."

Snatch says, "In re Jocasta 7:40 (And, now, sort of, Genesis 8:08, Eli 8:10 etc.). As much as I really, really, really, really, REALLY hate Solving Your Problems With Code, we've got this neat little Cookiemeter that basically measures how much RP you put into the game. For some departments where ranks are problematic because of turnover and the like, why not make some sort of provision for rising through the ranks based on effort put into the game? With obvious 'we'll see' provisions for cases where all of a person's RP is them being an ass and causing IC problems, but at least let people who've been around a while and have put the effort in have something to point to and say, 'Hey, you know, what about an IC promotion?' without feeling like a rank-grubber? 'Cause it really is fair enough to want recognition for effort put in, I think. I mean, Rhea was delightful and promoted both Quill and me after we… well, yeah, we were working hard IC, but I presume everyne was working hard IC. We were just the ones who were most active in RPing it out. I'm assuming that was part of the reason we got promoted."

Dynames says, "!"

Eli says, "?"

Genesis chuckles. "Cookies would make a point. good idea actually."

Zeph

You say, "Well damn, promote me!"

Zaharis coughs and hushes.

Snatch says, "You already got promoted. ;)"

Snatch hushes, too.

You say, "!"

Eve is still holding on to a '?'.

Genesis says, "ACK. Where were you in line Eve?"

Micah is, too.

Coronis says, "Me, Chione, Castillo, Paris, Eve"

Chione says, "Micah is before me."

Coronis says, "Sorry, Micah then me"

Genesis says, "Zeph, Rhea, micah, Coronis, Castillo, Paris, Eve. - Right?"

Phelan says, "Coronis Chione Castillo"

Phelan ducks

Genesis says, "Anyway, Zephyr is up. Go or I'm moving on."

Zephyr says, "Alright, to start off with, about the only qualm I have is the lack of information that's trickled down from Staff -through- the CO and XO. I honestly joined CIC, and requested Tactical Officer so I could help with main plots and get -EVERYONE- involved. That's my job.

This is also why I created Schofield with advice from Shem. (Yes, I am Schofield) Even though he hasn't got the position yet, I'm vying for First Sergeant so I too can feel more at ease with plotting for the other Marines.

I am a flexible player at the most, and I love RP.

Quicknote for Phelan, all pilots are Commissioned Officers

Now, please remember that ICly we're only a few months in, pretty much just hit the three-month-mark. I admittedly am already planning many many many story-lines which I intend to offer to Genesis if I find they fit or are interesting enough. Within those I also have suggestions for -EVERY- department.

Coronis is right, in saying that we need to make our own RP. However Paris is equally as correct in saying that there are certain boundaries.

This is mainly caused through military-setting, in which naturally the higher-ups are the ones who would give the orders. Now, ICly sure this is a boundary, but OOCly it doesn't stop us from giving suggestions. Does it? No, it doesn't.

I'd like to kindly suggest to department heads to fully utilise both +mail and the scuttlebutt boards to full effect…"

Zephyr says, "In short, all I need is a little more info from you (Genny) and I'll honestly do all the hard work if you need me to. It's my job as Tactical Officer. it's why I took it (sorry, shuts up now)"

Genesis says, "Yes, we are still a new game. Which is boggling it has spiraled off so badly at this point. But moving on here. Rhea is up."

Rhea says, "Whee"

You say, "The end, NEXT"

Bayless says, "Z beat me. :)"

Rhea says, "That's not my comment. I totally have another comment. I AM COPYING IT NOW OMIGOD"

Rhea says, "Snatch and Quill's promotions both made 'sense' from an IC standpoint from various reasons but, yes, they were partially based on the fact that the players were driving forces of RP. As for the whole Salin/XO thing, since I've jawed about it before. Coronis, my issue with it has NOTHING to do with you and NOTHING to do with Salin. I hope you don't think it does. Whether he's qualified for it or not, or why he got it, that's all IC. My issue boils down to the fact that you're staff and Reed's staff and Regas is a staff NPC/pseudo-PC, and now the upper command structure is held by staff alts. I'm generally cool with all you guys. I would hope y'all know that. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't. But you've got to see that it's going to make players cross-eyed. I've already stated how I feel the XO position should've been handled (opening up for new applications and concepts), so I won't get into that here. I have nothing against Salin as an IC entity taking it, but you can't get away from the OOC aspect of that. Just for the perception, if nothing else. It sucks for you as a player, I'm not unsympathetic to that, but them's the breaks. And that perception, I think, is an issue for the players right now that goes beyond Salin."

Zaharis giggles

Rhea says, "That's my comment for realz."

Genesis says, "And Salin is still about two seconds from being kicked down by Regas. For anyone that read the log.

Micah is up."

Micah says, "Okay, to briefly address a few things:

On 'making' RP: I agree that the players have to take some responsibility for their own RP, including suggesting plots and the like. But I think there is a bottleneck when it comes to the department heads, so to speak. I also think that there are two areas in the game where you can only go so far in making your own RP: pilots, and marines. We aren't /allowed/ to come up with plots involving pew pew and cylons, which is largely what pilots /do/. ;) Ergo, it would be nice if they happened with a bit more regularity. And I certainly don't mean to knock on Rue here, I adore her player. But I would very much like to see someone a bit more active leading the air wing, whether it's her zombie risen from the dead, or someone else.

On recognition: I think this actually ties in with my last point. Without department heads paying attention (and obviously some ARE), PCs who deserve recognition/promotions/commendations won't get them. I think this needs to happen more.

With regards to 'involvement': I also feel, frequently, like my contribution doesn't ultimately matter. There were the raptor pilots that got left sitting there while the marines were done hours ago. There was the plot, advertised for pilots, where the air wing was sitting in space for three hours.

I suppose that was kind of disjointed and all over the place again, so apologies. ;)"

Micah clarifies what he means by 'sitting', as in, nothing at all was happening. Hee.

Genesis says, "Granted, dept heads should be and some do. But, as Rue pointed out, she can't put into what she hoped so she sent her self into oblivion. Something we'll deal with, if we leave the doors open.

I have asked for weeks that Raptor pilots and Viper pilots learn each others flying, so we can counter when we don't have the people on board to do something. And yes, you are goign to have instances where the Pilots have to keep an eye out while the Marines handle things on the ground. We've tried to give them their glory and then move onto the Marines, guess that isn't working. So it may just be separate instances, but that would probably get flak also.

Coronis"

Dynames says, "!"

Micah says, "!"

Coronis says, "Alright. I'll start with Paris' comments.

1) Isabeau/Salin/Government — I fail to see how creating a 12 member Government creates a single 'FC' as you are calling them. Especially when the members of Government would be voted on by the other players. Isabeau is just spearheading the effort, ICly, until it comes to an election. From there? It's up the players as to who makes it onto the Government. It's up the players to decide how it's run. How it's handled. In essence, it's going to be an IC popularity contest based on who can lie the most and get away with it :D

Next, Rhea's comments.

2) Salin/Staff/XO — Well said. I can see the issue there and I can entirely understand it. And, I'm not unsympathetic to it. As such, I'll have Salin step down from the position, ICly, so that it can be opened up to the playerbase for applications. I'm not against that proposition, at all :)"

Genesis nods. "Chione is up."

Chione says, "I think this all comes down to trust issues. I know it's an odd thing to throw out, but bare with me.

Genesis is trying, but the player base is having difficulty trusting her vision, because some feel railroaded and that a majority of the events are 2-dimensional. This comes from experience of writing and running events, plots, and what have you. The reason Battlestar Galactica does so well as a television series is it's writing. Strip out the genre, and it's a drama of the highest caliber still.

The fact that minor PrP's, even minor ones, are not allowed to be run w/o staff permission is a bit bothersome. This comes from Staff not trusting their player base.

Players not going to staff to voice their concerns until a big explosion, comes from players not entirely trusting staff, etcetera and so on.

My own trust issues aside (Genesis broadcasting errant information all over the <Public> Comm) there needs be, I think, a little more leeway, a little more give and take, a little more trust between the two 'factions'. Staff are trying, and players are trying. There has been the perception of abuse and favoritism by staff. That will come at anytime when the major PCs are the ones running the show. Especially when you GET PCs who are trying, as so many obviously are. And toss in a little confusion about what the boundaries are about what can be done and what can't be … here we are.

Back to Snatch… Oooh, possible idea… but to be devil's advocate here… what if there is a good RPer out there that's playing an ass that everyone hates but everyone RPs with?"

Snatch says, "Then we get our own Colonel Tigh. Our very own Superior Asshole to strike. ;)"

Snatch says, "Sorry to jump order, but otherwise it'd be a half hour before a reply could get out. ;)"

Chione gives Snatch kudos. I like that. And now I hush.

Coronis tosses out, for the record, Salin was a Dept Head before I came on to do codestafflythings :)

Micah says, "Believe me, it's tough playing the ass that everyone hates. ;) (I also shush now)."

Genesis says, "Ok, let me look at this and answer what I can…"

Genesis says, "Ok, trust. Maybe I am a bit more open than most and can be really brutally honest in some aspects, which people are going to see as — oh hell I dunno they can make up their own words. I've already been called Crazy. I tried to not make things two dimensional.
It's basically coming down to, Players vs Staff. Players want this or they don't want that or something. No one is going to come to a happy point. There has already been too much tossed out there, for people to even try to see any other side but what they feel is the problem.
I tried making sure every department had something to do. It didn't work out that way. If it did, someone picked it up and ran with it. Others sat around and went, well WTF?! So we had snot throwing, back biting, frothing and now we have come to this. People have went into relationship playing and not playing the Genre. That I can't help, I cant' tell people not too, but yes, it bugged me too. All I saw was pairings off and that was all the RP they were doing when I'd look out there.

If you read +news Tinyplots, it says nothing about Minor Plots, it says world changing. So, that isn't a contention here. You can do minor plots.

Ok, I will apologize again for the Public comment on Chione. It was my bad, I take the heat, but it won't go into the past. So that is all I can do at this point.

Castillo is up."

Back to the rank thing… the impression I have of the concern is that a character cannot progress if higher ranked players are brought in. Unless you are intending to change the policies that are on the wiki about character advancement - the whole not a reward for good RP and based on time in and such? About crew poking by Regas… if not Regas, or their IC bosses, then OOCly by staff. Poking ultimately has to be done - ignoring a problem or being unaware of a problem existing is no good. Particularly if the intent is to have a military themed MU*. If that's not the direction you all want to take the game, or have military-light, then that should be clarified. Piggy backing on Chione, I have to say that the impression that players are not trusted by staff is something I think is not limited to them, but it looks like older players/dept heads exhibit to new players because of some previous bad spaztard player experiences.

Chione says, "!Rebuttal"

Genesis says, "Paris is up."

Paris continues about the rank stuff a bit: The system you describe (Genesis 8:03) in terms of ranks makes the most sense to me. Let people app a lot of pilots. I don't understand why a big air wing is a problem. Its only a problem if you're trying to defend the 'specialness' of pilots, which sounds outright retarded to me. Let most of them be LTs if they want to, as that is the standard combat aviator rank as far as I know. If people want to play nuggets for the fun of it, let those people do so. But DO NOT force it on people who don't want it. I have to worry about fighting my way up a career latter to be what I want in RL. On a game? If you dont let me play what I want (within reason) then its REALLY not worth playing (this strikes shades of the old silly dragon business on PernMUs - it was dumb then and its dumb now). If you get so many pilots… break them into squadrons. That creates a bit of inter-group rivalry, and creates more 'Star' spots in that you can have squad leaders (captains). I know I had a lot of fun when I got to lead a couple of combat missions that Tychon ended up being the senior pilot present for. I'm just really allergic to this idea of limiting concept options any more than is absolutely necessary. And when I got told I'd have to make a scrub if I wanted to make a new pilot, I said frak it - because its not fun for me. People like different stuff.

And as part of that I absolutely emphatically abhor the idea of connecting promotions to cookies or anything so ludicrous. That measures your ability to go out and whore RP with as many people as possible (even if its totally trivial and shallow) and not to put any kind of real effort into things. It punishes someone who RPs mostly with his squad, for example (what a bastard, playing with his immediate peers, superiors and inferiors). Paris was tied for top cookies the last week, so I certainly -can- go out and get them, but its a silly way to determine 'worth'.

Micah's point on the plots suggests an overall problem with the game. Either there is a Super Secret Main Plot controlled by staff wherein everything is according to their plan, and staff feeds us enough RP to keep interested (or at least, feed it down the rank ladder and make sure it is diseminated aggressively)… or we come up with a better model (because staff doesn't seem to have enough time/energy to keep up with the playerbase). Chione is on point here. You have to trust players and let us run things. Small things and big things. I don't mind permission for big things, but you need an environment in which the assumption is that a good plot proposal (even involving cylons etc) will be accepted, rather than the expectation being that it will be rejected. Its pointless to tell combat military people to 'create their own RP' when they have no tools to do it with.

Re: Government: Coronis, I don't mean my stuff on that to be as pesimisstic as it sounds, honestly. I like Isabeau and I'm excited about the RP (I loved the meeting scene, some of my favorite RP on the game yet, even if I was just angry rabble). My only concern was with the talk of 'military liason' being tossed around as the new 'big' position, I was just mildly concerned that the government would end up being a very narrow, single-point of contact thing (IE, maybe we'd get a council with a bunch of random civies - there are so few that probably most serious civilian players could be on it - but that it wouldn't get to do much more plot-wise than the air wing :P). The elections sound like fun (though there will no doubt be issues with them), and the whole idea is exciting. I'm mostly anxious because while I've enjoyed playing here, it feels like things are slowly failing as options… so if the civilian stuff goes sour for me I will probably just give up. Anyway, I have high hopes for it, I want to emphasize that.

Eli says, "HOLY WHAT THE SPAM"

You say, "Whoa. pause button a sec. *reads*"

Coronis says, "!"

Genesis says, "OK, RE: Air Wing again — It was not my call. Everytime I let someone through, I'd get pages complaining about it. So I quit letting them through. I've even had people tell me, I'll do your Apps so this doesn't happen. I personally don't give a flying frak what rank you are, as long as you are having fun. That was the idea, for people to have fun and not take it so damn serious. But they did and it's broke alot of things I didn't want to see broken, especially this early in the game.

I created the Assaultstar for Marine's to have something they might like to RP with and an extra set of Pilots their Wing. But that got kicked back in my face too, so it didn't work out. No one wanted it. It's gone.

In all seriousness, I'm about to just let it go PrP. Not something I wanted to do, but players seem to be leaning that way to do their own thing instead."

Genesis says, "I think Eve is next."

Coronis says, "Order: Eve, Dynames, eli, Zaharis, Dynames, Micah, Chione, Coronis (If I missed someone, let me know)"

Eli says, "Has Castillo gone?"

Castillo says, "Yes"

Paris says, "Genesis I'm not talking about past blame here. I'm identifying past conditions and suggesting what I think would be a good future solution. So that's clear."

Eve says, "One thing I've found that has irked me is that characters get ICLY reprimanded for things that are OOCly out of their control. I may be misreading a log, but it seems like M.P.s got in trouble for not working fast enough on the Astyoche thing, which seemed like an OOC snafu, rather than an IC one.
Now, on the flip side of that, there are some things we should be able to ICly assume. I had a scene with Fots a week or so after the department heads got their own berthings. In that scene, Eve mentioned that her friends all moved out of Officer's berthings, and Fots then got angry ICly that he had not been notified about changes is berthings. Something like that /should/ be assumed that XO knew, because we don't have time ICly or OOCly to memo about everything or scene about it.
As for pilots getting left in the black with nothing to do, may I just suggest on those plots that the person running it who /knows/ there will be nothing for the pilots to do? To just use NPC's. Or warn those PC's going along that there may not be much of anything for them to do but sit and chatter across the comms. That's just using a bit of foresight. If NPC's are used in the beginning of a plot and something /does/ end up popping up for the Vipers to do? Then can't they just launch a backup of PC's?
On the subject of Player Run Plots, while I agree with this some what, it'd be great to see…what I also enjoyed about this game is that it seemed to have One Major Goal, and One Major Idea. It kept us unified. It kept things sane. (Unlike where I came from, Serenity Mush, where who the Frak knew what was happening at any given moment)""

Micah thinks Dyn's in there twice, just as a note.

Coronis says, "Second dynames is Ramiro"

Genesis says, "Hm..well I may have pushed OOCly on the Astyoche thing. This was another plot I didn't know about, that others were supposed to handle and they didn't. So it finally had to fall back on people to scramble to keep up and figure out what was going on.

Heh. Fots. That's a Heh at seeing him frothing over it. Uh..ok, that was also my little bad. We were joking about it because…well. Gaelan had his own place. The CAG got hers (cause Regas is an ASS I say) and others were going, well WTF? So they were just put out there.

As for Pilots again, yeah I usually try to make it a point of saying, OOCly there are pilots doing this. But then, they go, well What the hell am I here for if it is NPC's doing it? Uh..so again..problems."

Genesis says, "Dynames is up then."

Adele says, "!"

Genesis fears the spam.

Zephyr calls over coms. "All hands! Brace for spampact!"

Eve says, "Now watch, Dyna is actually sleeping.."

Genesis says, "Yeah I'm gonna move on here."

Genesis says, "Ok, Eli, go ahead, we can come back to Dyna."

Eli says, "Go ahead and what- OH, that's right, doh"

Eli says, "Um. Where are the babies going to go? (I totally forgot what I was going to say!)"

Genesis says, "Carina. Zaharis, you are up :)"

Zaharis is here, hang on.

Zaharis says, "Speaking as someone playing a department head, with all this talk about not being able to be promoted, complaints about this and that etc, I need to say this to everyone - we cannot read your minds. Please be pro-active. And by that I mean I strongly encourage all players that if you're feeling stagnant or feel like 'Ooh hey, that sounds like a cool plot, I want in', to talk to their DH oocly.

I know I have a PC in the medical department that has a long-term goal for her character that includes eventual commission. We've talked OOCly about it, and I've helped translate this into an IC ladder with criteria and goals to accomplish before she gets that promotion. Within the bounds of reality (as some things are just not realistic), as a DH I'm more than happy to make that happen for your char. Not every person gives a cronk about promotions or is doing things to be noticed, so it's not really fair to your DH to assume they know that you'd love to be promoted. Please just talk to us. Give us the chance to help you.

Quickly, as to what Paris said about the civilians, I feel like I'm getting mixed signals about this now. People want a focus on military and complain about the strip club, but we have Coronis (staff) encouraging Isabeau to move the civilian government ahead. We have a proposal that involves at least 13 government figures (12 reps and a governor) and we don't even have 13 active civs. So already we're looking at mostly NPCs, which I'm not sure how they're going to handle.

Re Gen's comment on plots, I don't think the solution is going solely to PrP. I think Eve is right in that there needs to be some overarching cohesion and a sense of guidelines. And a sense of mystery. However like I've tried to state, it would be nice not to feel like being in a plotline is basically watching a movie where everything comes out a-okay because the ending was pre-written. I'd like to see staff more open to the possibility of characters veering storylines onto different tracks, or being able to take off with it in other directions. Gen, if you want me to talk about what specifically has me on this angle I'll talk to you about it later."

Rhea doesn't have a comment but I'll here-here Zah on the DH thing. If folks have Eng ideas, I totally want them. I'd /love/ some plot ideas or random scene ideas, as the matter of fact.

Zephyr sneaks in to snuggle Rhea. I can give you stuff, and you gimme stuffs too

Genesis says, "Ramiro, yer up."

Dynames says, "sorry, something came up"

Paris says, "!"

Genesis says, "I was sliding people to the end of the line."

Ramiro's 1.50…

I like this game. I like the people, sure there are some characters that I feel take away from the genre, but I don't let it get to me and I move on with life. So going into this, I want you understand that I'm about as laid back as it gets with most of this stuff. I like being here, I'm not leaving, and I don't really get stressed either way.

Relationship RP: I don't think this is anything to be alarmed about. I think it's honestly a natural progression and what drama I've seen from the couples I've actually been really happy to see. Hence why I've tried to generate a bit of it myself. Per TV, it's a natural progression, around season two the couples start forming. So I don't think it's such a big issue, but (and no offense to people that had fun with the scene) poledancing classes in BSG? I take blame for alot of Cornbread's antics too. I think it's a sign that some of the scenes and drama are heading in the wrong direction. But I also think a character that's a stripper because it's a way to keep fed throughout the utter selfishness of a civilian ship is a GREAT idea. Granted too much drama is a joy-kill but I was BEGGING for a cylon boarding. When I think BSG I think killer amounts of drama and characters clinging to that one happy portion of their lives while they're bleeding on the deck. Sure, not every scene has to be in theme, but I think as long as we take a moment to focus on the scope of the genre we'll be fine.

I've said it many times and I'll say it again, I like it here. I could use a little bit more player-determined-outcome on the combat events but I don't complain because after all, people are taking their unpaid time to provide me with these scenes. In turn I provide ideas from time to time. So, in goes my vote for more plots with multiple outcomes if they aren't too much a headache. Kick the realism up a notch, make the drama a little more dark and scary. One easy way to do this? Make the cylons more deadly. In the show one cylon would waste a room full of people. I'd HATE to say this, but Marines have gotten off easy. I'm a part of the impending paranoia game, I dig the civilian angst game. I think it's heading in a good direction but I think we need to all RP our characters a bit more "claustrophobic".

Lastly, I think the thing that everyone needs to remember is that this is a free game and a best-effort service, and even though I think Orion's a great guy, the buddha in me comes out and says that in the future we should probably be a bit more diplomatic about our issues. We're all human beings and adults here and no one does shit intentionally to fuck with other people. I see some of these plot twists that some players ooc have griped about as quick, imprompty ways for staff to twist the RP knife, and I've always welcomed them. I say we open dialogue and plot our drama out a bit in pages as we go. Twist the knife a bit and see what happens. It's fun. I do it lots.

Oh, and I'd like to apologize on behalf of Ramiro for leading Sage on and confusing the hell out of Greje. ;) Oh and also? Ramiro's a cylon. Don't tell Lex.

Zaharis hees and was totally hoping for a cylon boarding then too, Ram. *ahem*

Rhea says, "That was well-said, Ram."

Ramiro went to ITT tech ;)

Warwick applauds the good thoughts. ;)

Genesis: "When it was taken up a notch, everyone complained the Ships weren't doing enough, either in Jamming or firing. So the ships went up a notch. Now, yes, to me it is way too easy. But then again, you can't please everyone.

Genesis says, "Micah you are up"

Micah says, "Re: pilots: if the impression is that, as Gen says, they've had their 'glory days' and things will be marine focused from here on out, then I may just retire my pilot alt. I love that there's tons of other things to play on here, but to me the pilots were the core of the show's 'action', and hence I play a pilot for action. I do not want to make a marine, and I don't feel I should have to. I think that one +event.. Smash and Grab, was it? Demonstrated beautifully how several different factions in the game could become involved all at once in a plot. I think it takes a few things to make that happen: work (bleah), and trusting fellow staff/department heads/etc. But it /can/ be done.

Two, while I'd love to agree with Paris and say we should all get to play what we like, that just isn't feasible. At all. There /has/ to be staff regulation as to what people can play, or everyone will start coming in as Captains with 6's in their stats. Not that that should be completely unattainable, but it should require more than five minutes to set up a sheet and background and hit +bg/submit.

Also, to touch on what Eve said: it irks me greatly, too, having to take IC flak for an OOC mistake. No, I don't expect players to be constantly vigilant for screwups, and ask OOC about every one of them. But nor do I expect to require a medical degree to play a doctor, or a law degree to play JAG, or military experience to play a pilot. I just think it bears keeping in mind, that people are allowed to make mistakes and not have those mistakes held against them through IC consequences.

Lastly, I COMPLETELY agree with Ramiro on the claustrophobia, the dark and scary. The vibe that the show had, that I feel we're kinda.. missing. But I think that in order to RP that way, we need the progression of the plot and theme to reflect this.

Oh, and to echo Ramiro's sentiment: rah rah, I love this game, I'm not leaving unless it shuts down. So nyeah. ;)"

Genesis says, "And just to toss this out there, in OOC fashion, You were boarded. Moving on now..catches up on spam."

You say, "!"

Dynames says, "!"

Genesis: Uh, I didn't mean pilots were done. Sorry if you got that impression. As for dark and claustrophobic? Yes, I'd prefer to see that too. :)

Eve says, "! (Just because being 'boarded' during a stripper scene sounds dirty. So it deserved and exclaimation point.)"

Zephyr chuckles at Eve.

Genesis says, "OK, Ryley has asked to speak and due to her being who she is with a baby wanting to nuke everything, I'll let her in."

Genesis says, "Then Chione is up."

Zephyr raises hand in salute, "Hail the NUKE BABY!"

Ryley just wanted to clear something up for the record, having skimmed the player complaints thingy on the wiki. "I turned over the old BSP DB freely, in the hopes that the old BSP folks would have fun again. The only reason Gen had to change the #1 password is because it had been a year since BSP was running and I /forgot/ the password :) Also, I was never a co-goddess or any sort of staff at all (apart from an occasional fixer-of-bugs-in-my-own-code), and whoever has that impression is woefully misinformed. That is all. Thanks, Gen :)"

Genesis nods and hugs. Thank you. Chione, you are up.

Zephyr grabs Ryley and snuggles. "Stay, just make sure your bub don't blow this nice chamber I made up…"

Chione says, "First, I'm sorry Genesis, if you have apologized and I have not seen/heard/understood/comprehended/etc it as such. Because I have not.

Secondly, criminals and anarchists wanting to keep Isabeau from starting a government and threatening her life by following her, and perhaps firebombing HER apartment/office along is world-changing? It is RP conducive, in my opinion, especially considering that other people started being curious about it, and thus went to you asking about it, and thus you asked her to clarify things.

Thirdly, if someone is not doing their job, you communicate with them, first and foremost, clearly, when giving them the job what you expect of them. If they cannot uphold that responsibility, you remind them. If still they cannot do so, you ask them to step down. If still they cannot, you remove them. Department heads in this manner are positions of IC authority, and it sucks, we play these games for fun, but part of the job of these positions is work. Oy vey.

Fourth: Genesis, if you were open and onest, then I'm sorry, we wouldn't be having this meeting. There wouldn't be a need for it.

Fifth: Multi-layered plots are difficult, and come with experience. Seriously though, I have NEVER successfully pulled off a multi-faceeted plot by myself, alone. I have seen only one person to do so, and that was Kalypso. She took a plot, adjusted it to what the PCs were doing, who brought in other PCs, and it exploded like a time-bomb and I swear half the MUSH ended up involved in some facet at some point. Adapting to the twists and turns of PCs doesn't come easy - we're all crazy. You need to give yourself a little bit of patience and time to adjust to the PC curveballs thrown at you sometimes before continuing.

Lastly, Genesis, this meeting is for everyone to voice their concerns, to even give out plot ideas, and other suggestions. I give one last suggestion of my own. Make no decisions tonight. Do so in the morning at the VERY earliest. Okay, another suggestion - because communication is good, why not do one of these quarterly? Plot ideas might develop, I like the cookie idea from Snatch and I think it has great merit. And that's just one thing as I try to pay attention here and chase children to make certain they clean the dinner dishes.

Zaharis: I'm a military person that WANTS a civilian government. MORE MIXED SIGNALS! YAY!

Re: Ramiro: If Lex gets pregnant, you HAVE to name the baby Hera. Sorry. Canon. And no spacing Lex, she's not Cally!

Genesis: Obviously not everyone complained, or you wouldn't be having Ramiro suggesting it, then Rhea and Warwick and Micah applauding it. There were probably some very vocal people who were against it. I point to my Lastly comment above in my main rebuttal. Communication. Regular and Open in a forum such as this might help. (OOC: HA! I knew it! Damnit Chi for not voicing her suspicion like a good soldier, because she has no facts!)

On a side note to Micah… Don't MAKE me pull out my essay on Society Limiting the Individual and Individuals Limiting Society!"

Ryley goes back to nuke-baby and semi-afk-ness :)

Chione says, "… …. That was more than I expected."

Zaharis chews on Ryley.

Zephyr says, "! (Quick note: Chi has made very good use of +mail ICly. Me loves her because of it)"

Chione eyes Zephyr warily.

Genesis says, "1. If it didn't get across as an apology my bad again. I had a pup die on me a few weeks back, so, things kinda didn't get done like I was hoping.

2. No, they were complaing to high heaven of a Space Mafia. There is no mafia, if she wants to have someone fire bomb her, she can.

3. You are correct, I expected it to go differently. It didn't, it's my mistake.

4. Not sure what I've not been open and honest about.

Lastly, there is a forum board too. And yes, we can have meetings.

Coronis is up."

Coronis says, "Alright, I need to touch on a couple of aspects.

1) Command PC's and Staff — This is a general question to you, the players. How should issues be handled where a PC who is in a Command Position, is approached and asked to join Staff? Should they have to choose between their Command PC or the Staff position, to prevent Staff from 'ruling the ranks', so to speak. I'd like to hear the PB's thoughts on this.

2) Government RP — This is not endorsed by me, Coronis, as staff. I don't do plots. Period. The -only- reason I have a bit, in reality, is to fix code. I was doing it before, without a bit, but it was too hard to manage. That government stuff is entirely Salin, ICly. It's not endorsed by staff in any fashion as an offical plotline. I need to make that perfectly clear. Anything my PC's do to spur RP, is not an offical staff sanctioned plot. It's more of a PrP to get some RP, going. Like I've said, I don't do plots. I don't want to do plots. Like I said, I took the bit simply to fix the code."

Genesis says, "Adele is up."

Adele says, "I have to say that, honestly, a lot of these problems were news to me. Admittedly, I am generally quite oblivious when it comes to OMG MUSH PROBLEMS, but, to be truthful, I think much of these issues are pretty par for the course when it comes to MUSHing.

There's always going to be a perceived disconnect between players and staff. People are always going to see favoritism, either rightfully or wrongfully. Roleplay isn't going to always fall right into your lap, and on the flipside it isn't always going to be the easiest thing to just 'make roleplay for yourself.' Plots aren't always going to be perfect. But Genesis, from what I understand, is learning. She's teaching herself how to run a game, and it can't be an easy thing to do. I know I would never even attempt to do so.

I've been seeing a lot of specific examples brought up, some from way back in the day - and it seems like grudges are being held for far longer than is necessary for an *ONLINE ROLEPLAYING GAME.* I guess my only real suggestion (I know I'm soapboxing it here, sorry) is communication. Discussing problems with staff, instead of paging buddies so the problems can be extrapolated, then having a big explosion like, say, Orion on the public channel. I know there has to be trust on both ends for communication to be successful, but I think opening the lines of communication themselves go a long way in helping forge that trust. And I'm not really talking about large-scale communication - I just mean a page here and there to air some grievances before they OMG BLOW UP AND RUIN PRETENDY FUN TIMES OMG.

(I wrote this like 45 mins ago and have been adding a few things here and there based on other things people have said)"

Adele says, "Emphasis mine."

Rhea says, "Sorry. Shutting back up now."

Genesis chuckles. Well said. Dynames, did you want in again?

Micah says, "!(Just to corroborate that I agree, Gen is learning and doing a fabulous job for the most part)."

Dynames nod.

Genesis says, "Ok, go for it."

Dynames says, "My comments about the cookies=rank thing was already spoken on, I believe by Paris. It's one thing to get cookied a lot by being at the popular spots off duty or whatever. What if someone's always RPing on duty and due to their timeframe they only have access two the same handful of people, the core of their department, all week?

The different aspects of major scenes, such as Smash and grab could be handled by 'trusted' players in that staff asks for a volunteer, gives the parameters of the scene, and lets things proceed on the sub-scene, while the staff in particular handles the main.

And I am sorry about the Astyoche chaos. We had an initial mixup on where I was coming from on her background, I was given the go-ahead on the assumption that everything was ok'ed out of the blue, so I was building as I went. As for the ooc ball-passing, I am sorry about anyone who ended up raked over the coals for that, but it was a lot of OOC confusion. Who's handling what part of the initial investigations. Who's probing into the Raptor, who's picking her brain, who's squeezing the guys with her, etc. All told, once things started happening with her, even with the reasonable prospect that she was going to get iced, the scening was great fun, and it did spark a few scenes that let people get into their characters heads about some things. Again, I'm sorry about the chaos caused."

Genesis says, "The cookie thing is good, but I know it can't always reflect. I've actually had Nov start doing things for me, but I know she is getting busy too. It's ok, Dyna. It was a ball of confusion, and the poor thing had little chance. So, I'm glad you were cool with it in the end.

Uh. Paris, I believe."

Paris hopes this will be less spammy: Uh, with Micah: Obviously everyone can't be Captains (as I said, you could promote those to handle multiple squads if you ended up with so many pilots), but I don't think open apps for LT are strange for a group where, basically, the baseline professional pilot IS an LT. I admit I'm pretty bitter about this. I let Tychon die becaue the char had been something of a dead end and because I thought his death would spur some RP (and it seemed like it did). But I had been active and involved in recent scenes. Its a pretty big slap to be told you can't come back in that situation (or that you can only come back if you play some concept you really don't want to play). The other half of this is Genesis' common response, which is that the apps were uncontrolled and people were 'complaining'. Even if that's so, it doesn't seem to be the case now. And really I think that kind of control reflects people wanting to hedge people out of the good roles and keep things elitist, which is a terrible impulse and should be squashed. As a side point to this, I'm not sure dept heads should have full say over staff in these cases. They're IC leaders, but new apps aren't going through an IC application process. They're OOCly entering, likely to spring out of the background of existing characters. More bitterness on my end, definitely - but it irks me a lot to get blocked out in the way I was.

Cor: In regard to your 'to the players' question… I'd say probably it should be considered. Not a hard fast rule, but either we need more 'feature' characters or we need less staff in them, if more dept heads start getting promoted up to staff. Or the game needs to be re-oriented so they're both IC and OOC positions and its clear, and they come with extra guidelines and boundaries.

Um… I actually don't have that much. Oh, the issue about an NPC Civ government is definitely one, since we don't have that many PCs as Z correctly notes.

And finally on plots / PrP - I want to see MORE PrP. I dont want to see total free-for-all. But I think more players should be trusted the way Novella is and given things to run or let come up with and run things. Both because it will make more RP and because otherwise you have a weird position with 'Special' PCs who exist in quasi staff roles.

Paris tried to keep it down.

Coronis says, "Updated Order: Zaharis, Eve, Zephyr, Micah (So people are aware. Gen will still give you your cue's to talk)"

Micah says, "I don't think I need to talk, I already said my bit. :)"

Genesis says, "Yeah I can't say much more about it at this time, but what I've already said. Z it's your turn."

Zaharis says, "I just wanted to go back to the idea of the game's tone, which has been touched on by a couple people including Genesis.

Right now, I feel very safe on this game. Cylons come round here and there, but it's no big deal. We gang up and defeat them, people get hurt but they're back up and walking around within a few days. Rinse, repeat, and now we have a wondermap leading us to planets we can repopulate. Which is okay and all, but it's very 'safe'.

The destruction of the deck 13 lab was something I proposed to staff to up the ante, and since then I've been trying to ICly play a heightened sense of paranoia (Gen even makes fun of me on chan, woe)…though I notice everyone still looks at me funny ICly for saying You Can't Trust Everyone, even with a boarding and highly suspicious circumstances having happened that haven't yet been investigated. It's hard to be paranoid when nobody else is, and perhaps it's just that few people have reason ICly to be paranoid (as most stuff is classified).

I would love to see more reasons for average Joe Military to think 'Man, something is going horribly weird up here', or for Joe Civilian to go with certainty 'The military is lying to us'. I think the darker, grittier angle of this has a lot of room to be developed and I really hope it will be. That's what I as a player am hoping to see from this game. However that's accomplished, I'm game and here to help."

Micah says, "!(Hear hear:)"

Ramiro agrees

Dynames says, "!"

Chione says, "!Chi is, just just got her ass handed to her though, Z. ;p"

Snatch!

You say, "(BTW, Everyone is a Cylon)"

Paris says, "Your mom's a cylon."

You say, "Oh no you di'int"

Paris lols.

Zephyr peers at Zaharis. You're not supposed to tell them!

Eli says, "(I don't know what is going on now)"

Genesis: "Case and Point. No one is thinking OMG we're in trouble, because, no one is seeing alot of things. Are you in trouble. Hell yes. If you really sit and think about a few things that has happened, you'll probably have a better reaction ICly. Maybe I'm expecting too much..or maybe I just like to toss puzzles out there for people to pick up.

Ok, as someone has suggested we've hit over Three Hours here. And I know people have other things to add, but if it is rehashing, just step back. If it is something new, then input, we'll shut this off in 15 min. If you have suggestions on fixing, that's cool. Right now, I see that Salin will step down as XO so people can stop twitching about that.

There are more people for civilian than against it. It will go on, if you don't like it, then just ignore it. I don't want to hear some one flailing at all the 'it's not in BSG Genre' When it is, because they have their lowlifes too. :)

Zaharis says, "!(I think way too many people trust Regas' There Are No Skinjobs. But that's just me ;)"

Genesis says, "Heh. Heh."

You say, "Heh. Heh."

Shem says, "There are no skinjobs. Do not question this further."

Zephyr says, "Zephyr is a little Naive, but a good officer. Could he be? DUN DUN DUNNNN"

Genesis says, "Eve you're up."

Paris says, "Everything being classified does hurt stuff, though. Note how fast the skinjob rumors get out on the TV show."

Eve passes. I'm cool.

Genesis says, "Zephyr"

Adele takes what Eve passes.

Paris has an issue other than those addressed, that seems pretty on-point to the initial esplodey incident.

Eve says, "Toke toke, baby."

Zaharis says, "There are rumours out, Paris. The whole Destiny was abuzz. Just because Regas denied doesn't mean we have to IC believe him ;)"

Paris has never heard them.

Zephyr says, "Eh me? when me? ok ok, main point: ENJOY THE PLACE. minor point: *plots for XO*"

Zephyr says, "that is all."

Paris says, "It would be good if they were posted, maybe."

Genesis says, "Ok, Micah"

Zaharis says, "Regas made a speech that's posted on the wiki"

Zaharis hushes

Eve says, "Eve's totally going to be XO. (hushes too)"

Zephyr headbutts Eve.

Paris says, "Today? havent checked new logs yet"

Micah says, "Me? No, I had nothing more to say really. Except, puzzles are great, puzzles are awesome. But I would like more grit. :) I think Z put it quite well, things feel too safe. Regardless of whether they actually are, they /feel/ safe. And they shouldn't."

Zaharis will chat with you after, Paris. We'll make some trouble ;)

Micah says, "Oh, and.. I'm TOTALLY willing to cause trouble in whatever way shape or form would be helpful."

Genesis says, "Ok, Paris, last one."

Snatch is not on the list?

Paris says, "Well it hasn't come up, but the Reed issue? Without getting extremely winded… I think its definitely a problematic situation. I don't really feel I can trust his staff alt because of his apparent involvement in the things he judges and his tendency to shut down player action. I don't actually mind the Fulton bit as much as Orion did, but its also a little… iffy, and it would be better if that kind of stuff was handled with a bit more OOC transparency."

Micah says, "I'm out for now. Peace, all."

Genesis says, "Sorry Snatch, go and I'll comment after."

Snatch says, "In Re: need for rampant paranoia. All joking about everyone being a cylon aside, I've considered the idea that if I were ever to put together a BSG-themed place (which I know I will never do), I'd probably tell people off the bat that the cylon models from Galactica proper were not going to be the canonical models for the in-game 'show.' Because as it stands it's just too easy to know who to be suspicious of and who not. Once the skinjob stuff gets out (and I hope it does get out to more people), it might be cool to have people wondering OOC as well as IC. I know people do try hard not to metagame stuff like that, but I just keep remembering the first scene where the term skin job was mentioned in passing by some random NPC, and the next round of poses was 95% "SKINJOBS WTF ARE THOSE TELLTELL!" Like, everyone across the entire docking bay, no matter if they were near the person or not. It came off as a major overreaction to something that really could have meant anything at all— because (I assume) we all knew it was important OOC-wise. Just as an example of how OOC knowledge can tug at the RP of even really good RPers."

Dynames says, "! good point."

Snatch adds briefly that Snatch assumed it meant someone who gave the prossies their fancy facials. ;)

Genesis: "Ok, as for Reed. He came in and did building for me and that was basically all he'd do when I asked. He'd hop on IC builder, make something and go back to RP. I pulled him into helping and in which he was never going to staff again. If you have that many problems with him, I'm sure he won't mind just going back to his RP, because it really isn't meant to upset people over the small stuff. Which get out of hand, pretty quick, it seems.

As for Cylons. I will tell you what idea I had in the beginning, which got shot down completely. I wanted a few sleepers. No one Else DID. ok, fine, instead of having some big arguement, I let it go. I've had people ask me and in order not to have the game in an Uproar, we won't have sleepers.

We are stuck with Canon Models. But I'm trying to keep it to those that were more in the background. Than Six or Boomer. Even though Boomer has been emitted watching Zaharis fly off, it's a paranoid thing for him. which he enjoys.

I don't want to tell you what is laid out, because that would spoil it. I don't want people thinking there is a 'WonderMap' either, cause I shot that down right off. You can picture it more as a pirate map and we don't have all the pieces. Maybe it is also imprinted on Desusa's bald head. (Joke).

A booming voice comes from somewher, "LOOOOSSTT IIIIN SPPAAAACCEEE" (Joke)

Paris has a cylon opinion: I want a room full of naked 8s. That is all.

Zephyr says, "Hear Hear"

Dynames says, "So say we all."

Zephyr says, "So say we all"

Genesis says, "I will as was asked, sleep on all of this. I don't see a perfect solution for anyone. I can pull up and say, ok, I'm going to handle it all now. But then I'd be just someone who people would feel is stifling them. I wanted the players and those who took Dept Heads, to do this, to enjoy it and make RP for people. We now know, that isn't working well for Air Wing and Marines, so I'll see to getting it changed. I could put an ST in every dept, but that would be pretty silly also."

Eve says, "So say we all."

Zephyr says, "hey hey check it out, Genny is facepalming! haha, I think I heard her mutter *Men*"

Zephyr says, "ST?"

Genesis says, "Storyteller."

Zephyr says, "ahh ok"

Zephyr says, ">.>"

Zephyr says, "Does that mean I have to get rid of Scho?"

Eli just blinks

Zephyr sniffs. Schofield is an old man, and a storyteller…about his old stories :P

Eli says, "Marines aren't work-okies. Nevermind. SHHH, Eli, BAD talking."

Jocasta says, "Zephyr. :/"

Zephyr says, "I'm joking by the way Genny :) just putting some lightheartedness into it"

Paris just suggests that you be a bit proactive and not simply 'average things out' and end up keeping the status quo. Since the status quo is giving us problems :)

Genesis says, "I won't run a game everyone dislikes or can't do anything but think we're all out to get them. I won't let people keep dragging others down either. So it either changes, those people just enjoy the game or find another one. I dont' need people blasting me for the past. If you don't like it, find the door."

Zephyr wants to take the red pill, not the blue one.

Genesis says, "Ok, well people are done here. Thanks for attending and giving your opinions and gripes."

Paris says, "Who has blasted anyone? I think things have been pretty polite. Even me :)"

Genesis says, "Not here Paris."

Paris says, "Well then just focus on here :)"

Eli nods

Paris says, "This was positive, so stick with the positive."

Genesis says, "Or not tonight. I'm speaking of Orion and whoever he got all his information from that they are believing and leaving the game over. But anyway, thanks again."

Zephyr says, "Aye. Seriously Genny, I'm completely open for you to throw me stuff, and lemme work out the details OOCly: because I love doing it, ICly: because that's what gets thrown to me to spread the news :D"

Zephyr says, "USE ME"

Zephyr hmms…sounds a little wrong I suppose

Genesis says, "Right now, Zeph, I'd just like to relax some."

Genesis leaves for Tinyplot Rooms [OUT].

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